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 Post subject: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
hi

sadly i deal a lot with rot in roots and center of some of my phalaenopsis, i am very careful not to water down the center of the plants and flush pots from beneath, so they don't soak.

but i have lost a violacea sumatra 4n already to (heart rot? not sure if thats correct word), my day temps are 25-26 c and night is about 24 c. i have a lot ventilators running during day and powerfull LED lights.

the plant's stand in trays on leca, but i don't have water in the tray's all the time and when i have water in the trays, plants doesnt soak in it.

what am i doing wrong? i can take photos if it might help with rescuing the bellina alba, which is attacked by rot at the moment, other phals are doing okay right now, but i am concerned that they will get problems aswell later, if i don't figure out the cause of it.

Edit:

the 2 plants which have been attacked by rot, are both planted in bark, all the others which i repottet to light moss, are doing really fine... don't know if i should repot the bellina to moss aswell, or if it would do more harm now that the lowest leaf show signs of some kind of rot.


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:50 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
Anders -

Sorry to hear of your news; we have all been through this as well and it can make you ill at the stomach. Over the years, I have found that rot tends to attack your most favorite plants (it is some kind of rule!). Mites, also, seem to be able to see which plants we are currently admiring the most and then they all gang up on those plants, especially in an indoor setting.

Before some of the more wise members of this forum chime in on treatments/preventions, I would just suggest that you immediately isolate any plants that show any sign of rot whatsoever; depending on the species causing the rot, it can be *highly* contagious. For now, I would not worry about the quality of light the relocation site might be able to provide: just get those plants isolated immediately. I would also take out your growing trays and at least treat them with bleach solution, then rinse very well, then re-assemble your growing setting (this, just in case spores from the plants with rot have fallen into the trays..which is probable).

Do you have access to most of the pesticides we have in the USA? They may be in Denmark under a different name, so I will try here to copy in a weblink to a site that I find most helpful. It is critically important to rotate different groups of compounds when fighting infections and I find this list to be very helpful. The trade name of the compounds may be different in Denmark, but the active ingredient and its mode of operation should read the same. Weblink:

https://www.apsnet.org/edcenter/intropp ... icides.pdf

Best of luck,
Walton

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"Constant use has not worn ragged the fabric of their friendship." 

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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:55 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Canada
I’ve had success in growing violaceas and other fragrant novelty Phals indoors in a NZ sphag/perlite 50:50 mix. Give it a try, difficult to overwater as the mix is very open. Keep humidity at 50%, your day temps could go to 28-30C to help vegetative growth as long as the lights aren’t too bright
Best
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
hi walton and sharky

i seem to be over the issue, but i lost a some of my favorites in the process, although i never got to see them bloom...

sadly laws about pesticides and fungicides for "household" use, are a mess in DK. nobody without licens and proper reason, can buy or import systemic fungicides, and some of the only pesticide available here is roundup...

my best bet if getting a similar problem in the future, is to ask a professional gardener for help and hope they have something on the shelf, or convince them to supply me with bulk sized containers, that would probably cost 1000's of dkk. but if i could manage to get some systemic fungicide, which compound would you guys recommend? but please take in to consideration, that i have the orchids indoors.


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:52 am
Posts: 310
Location: Oak Island, NC
You mentioned the fans run during the day. I suggest that they be on constantly. It doesn't have to be a gale, just a gently wafting breeze.

I can only ship Inocucor within the US, but see if you can find a biological inoculant to populate your plants with beneficial microorganisms. When I started using a once-a-month application regimen, I saw rot issues virtually vanish.

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Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
Using science & logic to improve orchid growing


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
hi ray

http://www.gardenandgreenhouse.net/arti ... -overview/

something like as this link describes?

i'll probably set up a different set of fans, that run 24/7, so there's extra ventilation during daytime. i sleep in the same room as all my hobbies, so i always try to find solutions that are as silent as possible at night, or else i wouldn't get any sleep.

i also wanted to ask how important shifts in temperature is, between day and night, because its hard to regulate properly during winter months in scandinavia, as it's so cold outside during both day and night. what's the lowest night temperature i can keep, without staling vegetative growth?


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:04 am 
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Location: Oak Island, NC
Look for products containing live cultures of Bacillus subtilis, B. cereviciae, and lactobacilli.

Based up your response, I think your primary issue might be temperature. Most phalaenopsis species are definitely "hot" growers, rarely, if ever, being exposed to temperatures below 70°-75°F (21°-24°C) at night, and much hotter in the daytime. Some (bellina and tetraspis, for example) prefer it even warmer. Fortunately for us and our heating bills, they can usually tolerate the temperatures we prefer to live in. The problem comes in when the cool is combined with wet.

I learned this the hard way when I was developing the semi-hydroponic culture technique for orchids. The plants grew fine in the humid greenhouse, but when I brought blooming plants into my considerably drier home in the winter, the evaporative cooling from the open LECA medium proved to be enough to push them over the edge to being too cold at night, when we lowered the thermostat, and root rot ensued.

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Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
Using science & logic to improve orchid growing


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
i use heating mats beneath my trays 24/7 and ventilation from my LED lights in daytime, that circulate down towards and breezes over the orchids using fans. i never get below 21 degrees C in my bedroom, in daytime im around 25-30c, because evaporation and heattransfer from aquariums, they kind a work like 1000l. radiators :lol: standart temp in my aquariums are 30-32c both day and night...


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:52 am
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Location: Oak Island, NC
The heating mats beneath the trays are doing nothing to warm the root zone - you have a tray and layer of LECA in between.

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Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
Using science & logic to improve orchid growing


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:50 pm
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Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
raybark wrote:
The heating mats beneath the trays are doing nothing to warm the root zone - you have a tray and layer of LECA in between.


Anders -
Ray is probably right about the heating mats. This might seem surprising at first, but...I had an interesting parallel a couple of years ago while trying to germinate *very* difficult seeds of Capsicum chinense ("Habanero" group) and C. baccatum. Even after soaking the seeds in SaltPetre, I put them in a standard light-growing tray and set the tray on top of a heating pad. Nothing moved. Even after the heating pad had been on all night, there was no noticeable increase in the seed-level temperature in the pots. I was quite surprised by this. Here's what I did to remedy the situation: I planted more seeds, but put the pots directly on top of the heating mat on the lowest setting possible. To my amazement, almost every single seed sprouted in record time. This taught me a lot about heating mats. In the end, I found myself going around my neighborhood giving away seedlings of very rare chili plants to gardeners. Here's a suggestion: use a kitchen instant-read digital thermometer designed to show the temperature of food, like a roast. They have very skinny "needles," so you are not likely to damage the roots inside the pot if you are careful. This way, you will find out the true temperature *inside* the pot itself. Personally, I would not go too deep with the thermometer -- possibly just about 1/2-2/3rd of the way down into the pot. I know that you cannot grow your plants directly on the mats due to watering needs, but testing the temperature with an inexpensive digital thermometer inside the actual pot will give you more useful information than the temperature at air level or on top of the pots.

Ray also makes an excellent point in drawing a distinction between whether things like bellina will tolerate lower temperatures, versus thrive in warmer temperatures. I can tell that your plants are very important to you -- you may just have to "bite the bullet" and get some supplemental heat and air movement going.

Keep us updated; we are all wishing the best of luck for you. You are obviously a "natural" naturalist and everyone hopes the best for your pursuit.
Walton

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"Constant use has not worn ragged the fabric of their friendship." 

Dorothy Parker


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
i think i get your points, some of the pots doesn't stand on the LECA in the trays, and they are doing very well considering, they just arrived from germany last week and they are growing roots crazy fast(and some have noticeable new leaves on the way aswell), even though they were shipped in below freezing temps at night. (no stunned growth)

the others from earlier this year, had stunned growth after arrival here, so would it be better to scratch the LECA in the trays all together? beneath the leca the trays are pretty warm, so i still think it would work okay to keep the mats there.

or am i not getting the point?

since last time i posted in here, i've been measuring temperatures before i went to bed at night. thermometer says around 24c at night and 28-30c during day depending on the time i measure, but i will try to find a digital one to measure inside the pots, so i have a more accurate measurement.

some of the violacea's are about to flower for the first time. a krull smith x self and an indigo x magenta type...


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 Post subject: Re: rot in phal's
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
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Location: denmark
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