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 Post subject: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
i deal a lot with crownrot these days and since i live in denmark, where rules and laws on pesticides and such are ridiculous, i can't buy systemic or regular fungicides.

right now my best bet is cinnamon, but i am not sure it will do the job well enough.

are there any alternatives to cinnamon to better elliminate fungi i the crown of phals?

any household remidy is much appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:12 pm
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Location: Beaumont Tx
miss orchid girl used hydrogen peroxide 3% to treat the crown first and then applied cinnamon in her video, also I see people use physan 20 if you can get it there.


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:09 pm
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Location: Atlanta
I agree. Pour some fresh peroxide in the crown. When it stops bubbling, apply cinnamon to the area. I've only done it once but it worked. I guess it depends on how bad the rot is and how soon you catch it. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:50 pm
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Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
I agree also.

Really important:

Peroxide degrades very fast after the bottle is opened. Make certain that you always use a brand-new bottle when you can. I have an admittedly strange way of testing peroxide: if I am not sure of the age of an opened bottle, then carefully sealed, I pour just a trace amount onto an out-doors growing bench (where there are always -- ALWAYS -- bacterial pathogens lurking). If the peroxide "foams" up, it is still active. If it does not, throw it away: otherwise, if you use it, you will only make your problems worse since all you are really adding is...plain water to already "happy" bacteria.

I have never tried cinnamon *oil,* but I have heard that it is much more effective than powdered cinnamon. I must be clear: I have not tried this approach, but if the dosage is correct, it should work better than just cinnamon powder. Most "health food" stores carry cinnamon oil. I humbly suggest that you experiment with both cinnamon powder and cinnamon oil, following a very thorough treatment (drench the pot as well, including the outside...as well as the crown) with peroxide.

If you have such luxury of time, remove your plants from the growing area -- regularly -- and treat all surfaces with common bleach at 5-10% solution in good-quality water. Provide a lot of air movement to the growing area following the bleach cleaning for at least an hour before returning the plants. There will always be spores of bacteria and fungi in your growing area if you have an established "colony" of either; you should plan to be diligent in cleaning the growing area itself as well. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but our plants are worth it!

Walton

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"Constant use has not worn ragged the fabric of their friendship." 

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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:52 am
Posts: 310
Location: Oak Island, NC
If you're going to go with cinnamon oil, make sure it's cinnamon leaf oil, not bark oil. The leaves contain eugenol, which is a far more powerful fungicide than the cinnamaldehyde in the bark. I have even used it to cure toenail fungus, and as anyone who has ever had it can tell you, it is a real bear to eradicate!

I highly recommend visiting cinnamonvogue.com for ordering. That's the stuff I used to carry.

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Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
Using science & logic to improve orchid growing


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am 
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Posts: 415
I have about 250 phalies and dont have crown rot,if you have water left in the crown after watering why dont you pick it up and dump it out and get small pieces of paper in your kitchen (about 1in. square)and put them in the crown,glenn in california


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:09 pm
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Location: Atlanta
Lots of good advice! :)


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:52 am
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Location: Oak Island, NC
For the last several years of working, and during the madness of prepping a home for sale, I relied pretty much 100% on the overhead watering system in my greenhouse. It would basically rain heavily for about 30 minutes every other morning in summer, every third in winter. Fans ran around the clock to keep up a gentle, tumbling airflow.

I had begun using Inocucor Garden Solution about a year prior, and noticed almost complete eradication of molds and rots, and even with the overhead watering, I saw no crown rot at all.

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Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:50 pm
Posts: 367
Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
orchidgfs wrote:
I have about 250 phalies and dont have crown rot,if you have water left in the crown after watering why dont you pick it up and dump it out and get small pieces of paper in your kitchen (about 1in. square)and put them in the crown,glenn in california


I'm not the only one!!? I do the same, Glenn, and I swear by it. I try to water in the a.m. and if there is any water left (crown or otherwise), I use paper tissue to dap it up. Sometimes I feel quite silly when I look at the pile of little bits of tissue paper all over my apartment, but I agree that this is one of those "an ouce of prevention is better than a pound of cure" things.

Ray - Thanks for the clarification on cinnamon leaf -- I was hoping you would chime in on this situation and sure enough, you contributed a detail that we can apply at home.

Anders - Please keep us posted on your results; we wish you the best of good luck.

Walton

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"Constant use has not worn ragged the fabric of their friendship." 

Dorothy Parker


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:50 am
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Location: Hawaii
I have had good success with removing the diseased tissue, sterilizing scalpel between each cut, and treating the exposed tissue with Dragon's Blood. You have to use the one made from Croton lecheri, 100%. Shake the bottle very well before each use. This has been the most effective strategy for me.

Walton's caution is spot on, the hydrogen peroxide must be fresh to be of best use. It does do some good. I've used powdered cinnamon before with good results too. To me, the best thing about cinnamon is that everyone's got a jar in their cupboard and it smells nice and works. I've never tried cinnamon leaf oil as Ray recommends, but I will (sooner or later, when I remember which is a problem :oops: ). I've also used the old, brown type Listerene mouthwash with fair results too.

I also find that when the media is old and/or the roots begin to get funky, this happens a lot more (leaf rots.)

Ray's Innocular seems to help, but I haven't used it enough to say yea or nay. I do always use it for deflasked plants, but don't regularly re-apply it.

I'd recommend finding out what is causing the rot, is it a fungus or bacteria? The chemicals that control them are often very different. Most fungicides and bacteriacides are fairly narrow in the diseases they treat and the plants they can be applied to. The St. Augustine Orchid Society in FL's website has a good pictorial guide to the diseases and their control. This is a good place to start. Your local orchid society and/or plant agricultural agent are also good sources. They'd know best what chemicals can be used and how to obtain it in your country.

And everyone's advice about watering early and sopping up wet crowns and increased air circulation are spot on.


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:52 am
Posts: 310
Location: Oak Island, NC
I had a friend who purchased a whole case of those cans of compressed air for keyboard cleaning. He would stroll around the greenhouse after watering, with an occasional "pffft" every now and then to blow crowns clear.

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Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
Using science & logic to improve orchid growing


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
hi!

thanks for all the good advise!

i will take all advice in to account if i get in trouble with rot again(but hopefully i won't). the problem has stopped with the plants that died, but i think i figured out how to stop it, i always used paper towels, but now i added lots more air circulation during day (and soon during night aswell).

i've also found out that my orchids have magnesium deficiencies when they arrive here, all leafs are typically very light green, so i start treating it as soon as i can after arrival, i use RO-water with only magnesium oxide at around 50-90ppm after repotting to moss(depending on the size of the orchids), it apparently helps a bit with the robustness of the leaf tissue in my case(can anybody explain or verify this?).

also i have advanced my feeding schedule a but, but i am not sure if i am doing it right, i started using powder form fulvic acid and L-aminoacids with most waterings and a powdered kelp extract once a month. but i am not at all sure about which values to aim for, so it's a lot of guessing with dosing the products(typically i aim for overall ppm value of 50-70, at regular waterings), once or twice a month i flush the pots with only RO water, to hopefully get rid of salts and stuff that build up in the media.

any advise/pointers on the fert schedule would be nice :D ! i also thought of adding a bit of beer to my water solution for extra vitamin B, but i think i better try to keep it as simple as i can at the moment, until i get the right doses with all the new things i use.

again, thanks for all the assistance! i must be doing something right... some plants are starting to bloom


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:50 pm
Posts: 367
Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
Anders -

You are "on it." Before anyone can really help with your fertilizer options, please give exact detail about your potting mixture. Plants in live sphagnum need virtually zero fertilizer at all. Packaged sphagnum need fertilizer, but less. Plants in fir bark (or other conifer bark) need a lot of nitrogen. Let us know what you are *recently* potting in so that others on this Forum can give a more informed reply.

So glad to hear that the majority of the problem with the crown rot is behind you. Now, just concentrate on the things you want to own and care for, and the memory of the plants that are lost will pass in time. I have been blessed to have grown orchids for more than 45 years and I have learned to focus on what has worked, and less on what has been lost. We all lose plants here and there. Focus on the good stuff! You are on the right track.

Walton

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"Constant use has not worn ragged the fabric of their friendship." 

Dorothy Parker


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 Post subject: Re: systemic fungicide
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 am
Posts: 42
Location: denmark
hi walton

i use dried moss, but not compressed in the pots, just packed lighty and sometimes i use styrofoam chunks for keeping the mix extra airy, kept moist most of the time, by flushing the pots once or twice a week, i use RO water with akernes rainmix as a standart solution at around 50 to 80ppm. i am curious about supplements and the dosages, because i think it's designed for hydroponics and not ment for organic media, but i am sure some of you know more than i do about it. when added at the doses recommended, i end at a ppm value at 95-110ppm. i only use kelp once or twice a month, because someone wrought that it could make flowers mutate a bit if given to often.

i have the following supplement:

99% fulvic acid powder, bag recommends 1/8 to 1/4 tsp per gallon.
59% humicacid powder derived from leonardite, with potassium hydroxide(0-0-4)NPK.
amino supplements derived from l-lysine monochloride. (14-0-0)NPK.
kelp(0-0-1)NPK.
bionova MgO 10.


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