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F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:28 am
by peterlin
F1116 Phal sanderiana (sanderiana 'Joy' X sanderiana 'South Olive' AM/AOS)

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Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:31 pm
by ThisSideofParadise
Wow!

Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:55 am
by theshatterings
Awesome combination of both parents, but there's something odd about 'Joy'?

Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:33 am
by peterlin
theshatterings wrote:Awesome combination of both parents, but there's something odd about 'Joy'?
Would you elaborate?

Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:31 pm
by terryros
Peter, the several texts and an online resource indicate that sanderiana should bloom in the summer? We have so many concerns about lack of purity in various species of other genera (Cattleya, for example), how can we ever know if a sanderiana is pure or if it is an amabilis with some schilleriana mixed in back somewhere in the past? Is it the lip configuration that gets it done? With Cattleya species, the blooming time is one marker of whether a species is true or not. Maybe this isn't so tight with Phal species.


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Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:48 pm
by peterlin
terryros wrote:Peter, the several texts and an online resource indicate that sanderiana should bloom in the summer? We have so many concerns about lack of purity in various species of other genera (Cattleya, for example), how can we ever know if a sanderiana is pure or if it is an amabilis with some schilleriana mixed in back somewhere in the past? Is it the lip configuration that gets it done? With Cattleya species, the blooming time is one marker of whether a species is true or not. Maybe this isn't so tight with Phal species.
Keep in mind that these tropical plants are far removed from their natural habitat. I used to think that Phal sanderiana only bloom in the summer. Now Phal sanderiana 'Joy' is much larger and stronger - it blooms most of the year - on and off. It continues to bloom from secondary branch.

Here in the US - our climate is very different than Philippines.

Another example is that I have stem prop of wild collected Phal aphrodite subsps formosana. On occasion it blooms twice a year. It's not absolute.

What triggers these phalaenopsis to bloom is low temperature.

ORIGIN/HABITAT: The south side of Mindanao Island, Philippines, in the provinces of Davao and Amboango, and from Igat, Balut, and Saragani Islands, at 0-1500 ft. (457 m). -- Source: Charles Baker.

0-1500 ft is a large spread.

Finally, let's look at awarded Phal sanderiana

'South Olive' AM/AOS, awarded January 26, 1962
var alba 'J & L' CBM/AOS, awarded August 7, 1963
'Hilltop' AM/AOS, awarded March 8, 1964
'Varina' CCM/AOS, January 13, 1965
'Varina' FCC/AOS, January 1, 1965
'Linwood' AM/AO, April 7, 1982

So with the excpeiont of 'J & L' - the rest of the awards did not bloom in the summer months.

Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:36 pm
by theshatterings
Maybe it's just the angle from the pic, the 'wings' on the lip and the horseshoe callus isn't as obvious in 'Joy' is what I was getting at. Not trying to create any trouble..

It's also good to note that according to Sweet (1980), "Phalaenopsis Sanderana has been considered by several orchidologists to be a variety of P. Aphrodite due to the general appearance of the flower. An examination of the structure of the callus on the other hand, and the outline of the lip on the other hand, makes such a union very unnatural. As a matter of fact, as pointed out earlier, the horseshoe-shaped callus of P. Sanderana is so distict from that of either P. amabilis and P. Aphrodite or any other Philippine species, that it is difficult to visualize it to be the result of simple hybridization."

*Note the spelling and notation style is different from what we use currently.

Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:12 pm
by terryros
All I know is from detailed pictures of the lips and callus and the parent on the right has structures that match online picture details, but the parent on the left doesn't seem to match. This is not a criticism, just noting how difficult it is sometimes to be sure that we have a "pure" species. I have just been going through this with some white Cattleya walkeriana species that are controversial because some think that a little loddigessi snuk in there sometime. It was hard to keep good records in older days and we still mess up our records even with good electronic means.


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Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:24 pm
by peterlin
It's quite alright, this is nothing new.

I like to see discussion where you call out that a flower may not be correctly labeled. There are plants that we will never know their true identity, if we are not the originator or have a trusted source. I'm accepting the label as is and I always include cultivar names of parents on my own crosses.

However, flowering season and shape of leaves should not be used in identification when the plant is removed from original habitat. Our climate is very different than the tropics.

Re: F1116 Phal sanderiana

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:50 pm
by Ben Belton
peterlin wrote:I like to see discussion where you call out that a flower may not be correctly labeled.
I agree. As long as the person is polite, you often learn something from the discussion whether you agree with them or not.